96. Wes: Giving Up of Self Is Discovering The Best Life

The Christian life is truly a journey of understanding the reality of DTS (Death To Self). At the core of self is selfishness which is a tug of war of who sits on the throne of your heart and life. Self vs. God is at the forefront of this war and many struggle with the reality of this battle and either give up on God or give up on Self. In this episode, you will hear Wes’ journey of the real struggle of Self vs. the living God and what changed his perspective and life. Hearing Wes’ story will cause you to relate in all aspects of his story because every single person struggles with this war. What will you choose?        

 Check out Wes' Podcast:
The Seventh Hour Podcast 

Transcript

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Wes

Jack: [00:00:00] Jesus in my life episode 96 

Wes: and really where it came down to me was I didn't love God. I loved myself and there are so many people that struggle with the Christian life because they simply do not love God. They love things about God. They love the things God can do for them. They love learning about God, but they don't love God.

Jack: Welcome to Jesus in my life, a podcast with Robin Jack, where we interview everyday people like me and you about their extraordinary experiences with our savior, Jesus Christ. Welcome to another episode of Jesus in my life podcast. This is your host Jack with my co host Rob. Hey everybody. So glad to be with you today.

Yeah. Well today in studio we have a new friend, Wes Ireton. 

Wes: Ireton. Is that, did I say your name? You nailed it brother. 

Jack: Right on. Yeah. Nice [00:01:00] Jack. Wes is the host of the seventh hour podcast. He recently shared his testimony on the podcast. And when I listened to it, I was like, we, we really need to get your story on our podcast.

So Wes, welcome to the show. 

Wes: Well, man, it's my pleasure to be on with you guys. I'm so glad that you stumbled across the podcast and man, that's the whole point of our stories. Every one of our stories is that is to, to reach people with a hope and give them an inspiration that, that God is truly. At work in, in their life, whether they see it or not.

And so, I'm always willing to share my story, brother. You don't have to beg me at all. 

Jack: Amen. Amen. Amen. So, you know, before we jump into your story, I kind of curious. The seventh hour podcast, like the name I'm just curious. I don't know the answer to it. Why did you choose the seventh hour? What's the story with that?

Wes: So, I get that question a lot. And I wish I had a really cool story as to where that name came from, and it all boils down to, I just thought it sounded cool. I liked, I liked the way that [00:02:00] the scriptures talk about time in that sense of like, it was the sixth hour or is the third hour of the day or whatever.

I just always thought that was pretty cool. And so I've, I've loved the number seven my son's number seven in sports. I was number seven. I just, I love that number. And so. Yeah, that was kind of where the inspiration came from the seventh hour. And really it's not the name in a sense that was important to me.

It was the idea behind there being an hour of the day that people could go to and really find hope and find Christ. And, and at least one hour of the day was glorifying to God, to them. And so that's really where the name came from. It's nothing about the number or, or the title. It's more about what that hour could represent in people's lives every week.

So. 

Jack: I love it. That's great. Yeah. And The 7th Hour, you kind of deal with practical Christian topics, right? I've seen some of your topics like tips for how to pray, you know, what is worship, right? And so if you guys will get an opportunity, check out The 7th Hour podcast with Wes [00:03:00] Ireton. And with that said, let's jump into your story, Wes.

Wes, one of the things that we love to do is just kind of hit the ground running. Wes, the question we always ask everybody is, Tell us a little bit about your background and the role that Jesus played in it. 

Wes: Absolutely. So growing up, my life was very much from, from my earliest memories introduced to Christ.

My, my parents were God fearing people. My whole entire life, my dad is still to this day, the greatest example of Christ I've ever seen on this planet, the most godly man I know, which always says a lot when you've lived under someone's roof for 20 something years, and you've never seen them. I've never seen him sin.

I've never seen him, you know, raise a voice at my mother or, or do anything that I, at least in my younger years equated to sinful things or evil things. And so I just always grew up, grew up having this massive respect for his walk [00:04:00] with Christ. And I knew it was genuine for him. And so growing up in the church.

Two or three days a week we went to one of those churches that, you know, Sunday night service would go till midnight. Sometimes they didn't care about, , school nights, you know, so we, we were, we were having church and we weren't stopping. And so that's kind of how I grew up, man. I grew up just knowing that Christ was the center of our life, at least as a family.

But in those younger years baseball was very much my identity personally. Yeah. Christ was my parents identity. Baseball was my identity, and that's really what I cared most about and what I was known for. And so, even though I grew up in church and grew up a Christian was saved at a young age, I found my identity in myself and in my own achievements in baseball.

And so that took me all the way up through my My high school years to where I was the center of my, my kingdom. And I was the, the center of my worship , , and I hope that everybody would join me in worshiping me. [00:05:00] And that's kind of where, where I lived a lot of my high school days and in early college days until, the Lord humbled me over several circumstances after that.

So I don't know how far you want me to go, but that's at least my background. 

Rob: Hey Wes, we're talking about, , finding our identity in different things. And I think as you express that so accurately, , when we experience some benefits or success, , the tendency to have others worship us or, , as a result of us worshiping ourselves really essentially, is this because you experienced some success in baseball?

Wes: Yeah. , from a very young age, I had a gift there as a baseball player was always kind of a standout on the baseball team, played up several age groups as a young man. And then through high school, you know, set a lot of records at my high school as a pitcher. Okay. And. , was offered several D ones, full scholarships to play baseball, had my pick of the litter there as far as what school I wanted to go to.

And so, all of that fed into that identity crisis and it really [00:06:00] began to fulfill that void in my heart. Where the savior should live, where the creator should live that throne that was vacant, the more I sat on it, the more I enjoyed it for sure. 

Jack: Wes, looking back now, have any warning signs flashing back then?

Like, hey, warning, idle, warning, idle. Did you have anything like that? Because I mean, we live in a society where sports Can become a major stumbling block. It's interesting that we, me and Rob have interviewed at least, I, I can think of top of my head, three different guys who baseball was their identity.

And baseball was the thing that kind of led them down to a lifestyle that they were surprised they found themselves in, you know, 

Wes: and so to answer the question, what are the warning signs? There were definitely warning signs, but I always saw those as sin in general, and I never viewed it until about two years [00:07:00] ago as selfishness.

The revelation I had just a couple years ago was, That at the root of every sin, and you can name any, any sin you can think of right at the root of it is selfishness and pride at the root of every sin. It's, it's, it's the beginning phases. The embryo of every sinful act that comes to pass. And so growing up and even, you know, through my early adult life, I would just say that I'm, I've got a sin I'm struggling with.

I didn't said I'm struggling with selfishness because I never even thought that that was a part of it. I just, Oh, I'm struggling with drugs or I'm struggling with pornography or I'm struggling with, you know, lying or cheating, or I'm struggling with this, struggling with that. And I never once said I'm struggling with selfishness.

And it wasn't until I addressed the selfishness that all the other sin became clear that, you know, that's just a byproduct of selfishness. That's just the outward appearance [00:08:00] of selfishness. And at the heart of it. Was the selfishness itself. And so that's really where I got, where I became victorious over it in the, in the long run, everything up until that point was just band aids or fighting a sinful outcome as opposed to fighting the real battle.

Of where it began, 

Rob: man, you know, selfishness. When you think about that word or selfish man, I, I think the key thing of that is as you articulate that so well, Wes is self itself at war with the spirit. That's so profound. That's a whole nother podcast for sure. Jack, I mean, we can roll with that, but, but I'm curious, Wes.

Okay. So, I mean, there you go. This is something that was revealed to you recently, but certainly in the moment when you were experiencing some. Self success in this sense, I'm curious. Now, what did that do for you in your life from that point forward? Like how did that kind of follow you like into your later years?

Wes: Right. So that's praise and that adoration [00:09:00] from other people I found now looking back really. fulfilled a need that I have. And I think a lot of us need is for this affirmation and this feeling of acceptance. And so baseball was that avenue that I used to get that acceptance from people and that praise and adoration.

And so when I got that, the more I wanted to play baseball, the more I played baseball, the more I got that. And so that was, it was a cycle and all that cycle came crashing down after my freshman year of college where I had a torn rotator cuff and couldn't pitch for the first time in my My life, I couldn't play the sport and I'd never had an injury before that separated me from being able to play the game.

And from the age of 3, when I started playing until this point at 19 years old. And so for the 1st time ever, not only am I alone on a campus where nobody knows me. And now I have nothing to show them why they should know me and I had [00:10:00] nothing to, to, to hold out and say, this is why I'm worth it. This is why you should like me.

This is why you should accept me. And so for the first time in my life, I didn't have that. And that's where things really unraveled quickly. I had to find that acceptance and that praise from something, even though baseball couldn't be it. So. It led me to party and it led me to, to women and I would, you know, date women and have sex and do all of these things so that I could get that acceptance, that praise, that adoration that I really needed.

And when that relationship would run out, I would run to another 1 and to another 1 and to another 1 until I was partying every night and every day of the week and flunking out of school. Because class the classroom wasn't giving me that that acceptance. I was never a standout student. And so I just forsake that and and just ran to the people that I knew I could get that from surrounding [00:11:00] myself with people who could see my actions and see what I was doing.

And I could feel accepted by those people. And so that led me down that deep path, that dark path until I flunked out of college and went back home and was a nobody. 

Jack: Okay. And so where was the background of faith that you came from? Right? Like, cause you had been exposed to the gospel, you'd gone to church.

What was that doing in the background? Right? Like, I mean, this kind of stuff, God's word doesn't return void. I mean, I think of my own life when I was. Living, you know, headlong into sin. There was always that back in my mind, like this isn't where you belong. This isn't the lifestyle, you know, this is wrong.

What was that? What was happening in your life at that point in time with that? 

Wes: Well, it was twofold. One, I did absolutely know that my life and sin was not pleasing to the Lord and that that was not the purpose why I was put on this planet. And that's not what God had for me. And I knew it was dishonoring to him.

But at the [00:12:00] same time, my flesh was so strong and my desires, my sinful desires were so strong that it definitely overcame the weak spirit man within me. So there was that portion as well. But at the same time, I was your typical lukewarm Christian. I still went to church on Sunday. I cleaned myself up.

I took a shower Sunday morning, did my hair and I didn't even wear a hat to church. That's how fancy I was getting, right? That's a inside joke. I wear a hat all the time, but yeah, I, I'd get myself cleaned up. I'd, I'd go to church, still hung over, still, still high, whatever. And I knew all the right answers.

I knew how to be a, I knew how to be a Christian in front of all the Christians. I knew how to pass the test. And so to everyone else, I just, I looked like them. I looked like another believer who went to church, checked it off the list. I carried my Bible in and out of there and I knew all the words to the songs.

I knew what the preacher was talking about. If you asked me a question, I knew the [00:13:00] answer. And then I went right back into my lifestyle Monday through Saturday. And so I know there's churches full of people like that today. And I was one, I was one of those people. 

Jack: So I am thinking back to my first two years of Christianity where I was half in, half out.

Right. And what changed is when I really got out of just the Sunday, the Sunday midweek service Christianity, right. Where I just went for an hour and a half, sang the songs, listened to the teaching and laughed. It's when I integrated my life with other Christians. You know, when I gave up my Friday nights to hang out with some other Christians that I, you know, people I didn't even, you know, I didn't even want to hang out with, but I decided to, that's when my Christian life changed.

Did you have Christian friends at this time? Or were you kind of, you know, just like that statistic that you go on Sunday and you leave as soon as possible? 

Wes: Well, not in college. I didn't have a lot of Christian influence in that short time of college, by the way. , I didn't have a lot of friends.

I didn't run with that group probably on purpose [00:14:00] because I didn't want to feel that that guilt or that, that shame, you know, and also I think I was at a place where a lot of people find themselves today in a place of. Um, doing these things, going to church and praying before I go to bed and, and, and still preserving a little bit of Jesus in my life was hopefully good enough for God to accept me still, even though I'm struggling, right?

And there's a lot of people that still struggle with that today, or they live their Christian life that whole way of, as long as I'm doing these things, I can. I can still struggle with sin, like struggling with sin will just be a part of my life forever. And so as long as I still check these boxes over here, God will still be happy with me.

And so there was a little bit of that false doctrine in my life at that time of where I was still kind of covering my bases, so to speak and saying, well, yes, I do drugs. Yes, I struggle with this and yes, I'm, you know, living in sin. [00:15:00] I know God loves me and I'm doing as much as I can right now to please him with at least these, these few areas of my life and checking these boxes off.

Rob: Wow. Wes, as you're describing that, I'm thinking about recently we had somebody on our podcast and he was sharing similar themes of some things that he's been going through recently. And just as you're addressing it. I mean, it, he just is dressing like this life of lukewarm. Like I, I want a little bit of the world.

I want a little bit of Jesus and kind of like toggling back and forth. And, and he made this pretty profound statement. He said, everything changed when I realized that in my mind, I was a believer, but in my heart, I was an atheist. Yeah. And as you're talking, I just can't help, but think that same thing as you're describing, you know, that life of lukewarm.

And. We know that. I mean, God makes it very clear. Like if you're going to go all in like cold, go for it. Do [00:16:00] that. If you're going to go all in for me and surrender your life and, and, and be a radical follower. I mean, I, here I am, let's go. But being in the middle, it's like pretty sobering when Jesus says, you know, I, that's, that's so, I can't even stomach that.

Like I just want to vomit. And as you're sharing, you know, your story, I, it seems that God is doing something in so many people where I just, it's like, God is making it so clear that it's hard to live in the middle, in the gray. I mean, would you, would you feel that same way? 

Wes: And really where it came down to me was I didn't love God.

I loved myself. And yeah, there's so many people that struggle with the Christian life because they simply do not love God. They love things about God. They love the things God can do for them. They love learning about God, but they don't love God. And if you do not love God, you will struggle [00:17:00] your entire life to try to measure up.

And so, it came to a point in my life where I didn't have to choose, where I wasn't fighting sin anymore. I'm not, you know, you know, struggling with all these things, because I'm so in love with Jesus. That that love for him permeated all these different areas, and he became so much more beautiful to me than myself and definitely than these sins.

And I think that's where a lot of people struggle, and that's where I struggled for a long time, and it wasn't until I really found. The concept of Christian hedonism that I believe I attribute to John Piper, and that's, that's, that's one of my biggest mentors in my entire life is John Piper and that idea of seeing and savoring.

God himself above all things and he is your treasure. That is the Christian life That's what makes us Christians. Not that [00:18:00] we're perfect or that we do things and don't do things It's that we freakin love God more than anything That's that's what makes us believers and when Christ talks about that in a parable He talks about a field and he says there's a man that saw a treasure in a field and he went and hid the treasure And then he sold everything that he had it says in his joy you He sold everything he had so that he could buy the field because he wanted the treasure.

That's how much we should love God that we'll sell anything like, yeah, take, take the drugs, take this, take my wife, take my kids, take my house, take my cars, take my boat, take whatever you want because God is so much better than any of those things. And so that is to me when I talk to people today about becoming a Christian.

, or, Hey, I've got questions about this, or I want to know how to be a better Christian. I'm struggling with the struggle with that. I always want to get down to the heart of the issue. Do you love God? Because there's no way that you can hear about what God has done for you [00:19:00] and not fall in love with him.

There's no way. And once you fall in love with God, it changes everything about your 

Jack: life. Amen. Preach it brother. Pastor Wes on the show. Let's go. I got off 

Wes: track there a little bit. I'm sorry. 

Jack: No, no. I love it, man. That's wow. That's pure gold right there. Uh, you know, I have so many thoughts. One of the things that has really stood out two things that have really stood out to me over the years that were kind of really life changing for me is my old pastor used to say, if you're like lukewarm Christian, right?

If you're kind of going through the motions, it's the worst place possible, right? Because you have too much of Jesus to enjoy the world. Right. And too much of the world to enjoy Jesus. It is a miserable place to be. And I think that's the whole reason it discussed Jesus. Because he knows how damaging it is to us to walk in the middle there.

Right. Yeah. And then the other thing that, like, kind of speaks volumes to me is my motivation for heaven. Right? Like, do I view heaven as a [00:20:00] Get out of hell for free card. I get to go live in paradise. Well, you know, your motives is it's a little off there, right? The motive for me to go to heaven is to be with Jesus.

That's what I'm excited about for heaven is to see my savior. I mean, it's kind of like I can only imagine what my reaction is going to be when I see him. That's what I'm excited. It's a homecoming. I get to go live. With with him. Yeah, right. That's the reward. 

Wes: That's what, you know, Paul and in writing, man, I'm torn between the two.

It's, it's good for me to stay here with you guys, but my heart longs to go be with Jesus in heaven, not to go see what streets of gold look like, not to go and like have my own mansion and, and to see how many crowns I achieved. I want to go be with Jesus. Like, I don't care if there's anything in heaven, but Jesus.

That would be fine with me. Right? And that's the case. Like, if you could ask somebody, Hey, what if heaven was just a blank room with you and Jesus in it? Would you want to go? Right? Would you, would you want to go? Would you want to go be there? [00:21:00] You know? And it's, and, and what if hell was just earth as you know it today?

Would you want to, would you want to go there? Like if that was the choice, right? And, and I love that, that you're, that you're on that track of man, Jesus is, is the reason. Yeah. For, for our longing for that, for that life of eternal, you know, satisfaction with him. 

Jack: Amen. Amen. So Wes, uh, you know, kind of got off track your, your story here, which, but it's been awesome.

Let's get back on track. And my question to you is what was the scenario that led you to fall in love with Jesus? 

Wes: Sure. It's been a long scenario of me falling in Jesus. I'm still falling in love with him every day, but, um, where, where things kind of changed for me, as least on my path is concerned. I went back home after college at flunked out, was a disgrace was a shame.

I felt like I had really disgraced my parents name. They were known in my town for being these, these faithful followers of Jesus, these lovers of God and these lovers of people. [00:22:00] And they raised this kid who flunked out of flunked out of college, ruined his baseball abilities and was a nobody, right? So I, I came home feeling the weight of that.

In fact, I felt that way so much that I moved out of that town to about 30 minutes away and began selling drugs for a living, living on a college campus, partying, continue to party on and live a life of crime. And that led me to a place of one night I was at a, I guess it was a night, I think it was probably early morning.

I was in an apartment. I don't even remember where it was, but I was in an apartment and I remember going into the bathroom and just looking into the mirror and my heart was, I felt like my heart was like stopping and then starting and it was so heavy. My heart was pounding so hard. I had done all kinds of drugs that night and was Convinced when I looked in that mirror that I was about to die.

And I remember looking at myself and just saying, man, this is where it's it. This is where it ends, man. Like you're in this nasty old [00:23:00] bathroom of some random apartment on a college campus. Nobody's going to find you here for a long time and you're going to die right here. And nobody's really going to even care that you're missing right from this world.

You weren't making an impact. You weren't doing anything but causing evil. And so you're going to die in this, in this bathroom. The end. I, you know, maybe it was God's assistance. I mean, I know it was because I believe in the sovereign God, but also is my stupidity that got me in my truck and said, I'm just going to lease drive home right now.

And see my parents, apologize to them, tell them that I'm sorry for everything. And so I can see them one last time. And so I did that. God got me home. I crawled up into their bed and just said, Hey guys, you know, I'm dying and I, I love you guys. And I'm sorry for everything. And well, needless to say, I didn't die that night, but I definitely it definitely served as a wake up call for me.

And so I, I prayed to the Lord after that. And I said, God, I know that. [00:24:00] I am. I'm a sinner. I know that though I was saved at an early age, I have not lived like a son of God. I have not lived like one of your children. I have not brought honor to your name. And I know that, uh, and I'm, I'm worried that if I, I die today, I don't know what the future would hold.

I don't know what my eternity would be. I I was just crying out to God for a change. I said, God, I really want to change. But I don't know that I can change and live here where I live, right? Everyone knows me for who I am. Everyone calls me for this party, that party. I was having trouble saying no. I tried to stop for a day or two at a time.

And it was always those people around me that brought me right back into it. I had trouble, you know, declining those invitations. And so I prayed that prayer. And it was just a week or two later that my dad gives me a call and says, Hey, I've got a job promotion. I'm moving to Tennessee. Do you want to move with me?

And so immediately I knew that this was God answering the prayer to get me out of here. [00:25:00] But also I didn't want to say yes because you know, part of that, my flesh was still like, man, I don't want to, I, you know, I don't like what I'm doing, but I do like what I'm doing. I'm just kind of a. So I, I thought about it, but ultimately said, yeah, I would move and cause I really wanted to start over.

I really wanted to change. So before I moved, I was extremely convicted about because I knew, you know, what I've learned about God growing up is that, you know, seeking forgiveness for our sin is, is really important, not only to God, but to other people. And so, um, I felt this strong conviction to confess my sin to the local law enforcement about the things I'd done, the crimes I'd committed.

I knew that they, I didn't know if they were looking for me specifically, but I knew they had arrested a lot of my friends or the guys I was running around with. So I told my dad, I said, Hey, I want to move with you, but I really want to do it right. I want to, I want this to be a truly a [00:26:00] clean, fresh start.

And so before I say yes, I want to go to the police and confess like the things I've done. And so I called the local police and saying that they were shocked as an understatement, of course, because criminals don't normally call the police and say, I'd like to confess my sins to you. And so, uh, I, uh, I went to the local police department.

And they put me in a room with a camera and recorded like an interrogation room. They recorded me confessing everything that I'd done. I even kind of took some stuff that I had stolen and kind of gave it back to them and just said, Hey, guys, I'm, I'm moving. I'm trying to get my life straightened out and they they said, you know, I don't believe that.

The prosecutor will want to prosecute you based on what you've done here today, but I told him where I would be. I told him I was moving and we shook hands and I went on my way. And so my dad and I moved down to Knoxville, Tennessee and day one. I believe it was day one. It [00:27:00] may have been day two, but we get down there.

It's just me and my dad because my mom and my sisters had, they wanted to finish the high school school year out. And so me and my dad moved down and I. Okay. I remember getting up the next morning and sitting on like the front, front stoop of our apartment where we, we, I mean, we had a blow up mattress and like two lawn chairs in this place.

Right? Like we're living simple. My, all my stuff is in Indiana, so I'm sitting out in the front and I'm smoking a cigarette the next morning. And this guy is coming home, I guess. And he lives in the apartment across the hall from us. And he says, Hey man, and we get to talking and he goes, do you want to smoke some crack?

I'm like, And I was like, yeah, yeah, man, let's, let's do it, dude. Like, that sounds like a great time. And so we spend all day, we spend all day smoking and my dad gets home and I'm like, dad, you know, the devil found me here in Tennessee too. And you know, I'm, I'm never going to get victory and blah, blah, blah.

And my dad's like, it's all right, buddy. I love you. We'll get through it. We prayed about it. We. [00:28:00] And so that was 

Jack: an awesome dad, an 

Wes: incredible dad. And so that was just kind of another little moment where I realized that it wasn't about the environment. It wasn't about the sin itself. It was about my heart and it didn't matter if I was in a church building.

If someone asked me if I wanted to sin, I would say yes. It was, uh, it was about the sin itself in my heart and the evil that was in my heart. And so I got cleaned up and I began to, you know, try to surround myself with the right people. I got sober, but like I started this conversation about selfishness, I still was selfish.

I just was covering up the sin. And with a band aid to like, stop the bleeding, right? Don't don't do drugs was my mission, right? Don't do drugs. Like, as long as you're not doing drugs, you're good. And so, I got a good job, started making some money, started running around with some friends and [00:29:00] I had a buddy that I was working with and I was starting to get more comfortable going out and just socially drinking with some folks responsibly and not necessarily, you know, doing anything bad or partying, but just going to a normal, nice bar and just hanging out.

Right. And so. The more comfortable I became in that situation, I found myself him inviting me into a bathroom at a public restaurant and asking me if I wanted some cocaine. And this was about 2 years later from when I'd been in Tennessee. So I'd been cleaned up about a year and a half probably.

And so, you know, that evening I did the cocaine with him and went right back down to that path where I was. And I came back home and I was laying in my bed that night in my parents house. Still live with them. My parents, my mom and moved down with my sisters. We all lived in the same house now. And I was laying in bed and I heard a voice.

And I, I'm real careful to say that it was God, but I heard a voice. [00:30:00] That said, what are you doing? And I, I remember sitting up out of bed and looking over toward the corner where it was dark. And it just said it one more time. What are you doing, Wes? And I was like, you know, I didn't really respond. I just laid back down.

And even though I'm, I'm not going to say that that was God's voice. In my heart that night, I knew that that was God speaking to me in some way, and I knew that that question reverberated through my whole system of like, what are you doing? You know, like, how are you back to where you started? So I laid my head back down and I just prayed.

I said, God, the issue isn't the sin. The issue isn't, you know, my surroundings. The issue is that my spirit is not strong enough to overcome temptation when it comes my way I'd seen in how David defeated sin in Psalm 51 your word I've hidden my heart so I don't sin against you. I knew it was God's word in him.

I knew how Jesus [00:31:00] defeated sin and temptation when the devil came to tempt him. He, he refuted and fought back with the word of God. And I'm like, man, I just need to be filled up with this. Word of God, like I need to strengthen myself to such a place to where it doesn't matter who asks me to do what, no matter what sin comes my way.

I'm able to say no, I'm able to overcome with the word of God. And I prayed for a sabbatical. Of course, I was like, man of senses. I'm like, God, I want to get away with you for a while. I just, I need that Time away out of the hustle bustle where it's hard to find that time or at least I wasn't disciplined enough to find that time With him I was like, I just need to get away with you Like I long for that time because I know the victory I'll have outside of that And it was a week later after that prayer, I was driving home from work and I rolled through a stop sign that was in my neighborhood and the cop pulled me over and he said, Hey, we've been having a lot of complaints about people rolling through this stop sign.

So just going to write you a warning. No big [00:32:00] deal. I'm just here to make everybody happy. Just don't be careful next time. I said, okay, no problem. So he goes back to his car. And about 15 minutes, 20 minutes, about a half hour goes by. I'm like, man, this is a really long warning. This guy's writing me, man.

Like what's, what's taking so long, right? Like, are we getting like a two or three pager warning here, an essay on rolling through stop signs. And so about that time, about four or five cop cars come and block me in, jump out of their cars. Guns drawn, get on the ground, get out of the car, lay down, get your hands out.

So I'm laying there on the middle of a middle of the road with my hands spread wide out and having no idea that it was that serious to roll through a stop sign. I'm like, wow, like this is a, this is a big time offense here. And so they arrest me, throw me in the back of the cop car. We're on our way to the jail and I'm like, what, what's going on?

Like, what's the problem? And he said, does Muncie, Indiana ring a bell? And that's, I was like, yeah, that's where I used to live. I, and that's where I confessed to the [00:33:00] police and that's where I lived and sold drugs to all those things. He said, well, apparently they want you really bad up there and you're a fugitive on the run.

And I'm like, okay. So anyways, when you're a fugitive, they got to keep you for up to 20 days. If, if the people who are extraditing you don't come and get you within 20 days, they have to let you go. At least that's, that was the law at that time. So I get to the jail and I think I'm just going to kind of get in and get out like misunderstanding, right?

So I go in and the jail's already overpopulated. So there's not really any jail cells that they can put me in. But in one of the pods, there was a cell that was broken in a sense. It didn't have a bed on the wall. So like they weren't using it. And they put me in that cell. So they opened the cell door and they put me in there and the jail cell doors shuts behind me.

And I look over on the little stainless steel table that's in the corner and there's a little New Testament Bible sitting there. It's the New Testament plus Psalms, right? And I still have this Bible every time I, I wish I [00:34:00] would have had it up here and showed you today, but it's in my nightstand by my, by my bed.

And I read that by, I knew exactly when I saw that Bible that that prayer had been answered. I'm away from the world. It's just me and God's word. And I read that thing from front to back. I don't know how many times that thing's marked up and circled and underlined. I've memorized a lot of scripture and I, and I just came out of there a much different person finally strong enough to overcome temptation.

And so I was in there for 20 days on the 20th day. Sure enough, they came and got me from Indiana. I go up there and spend about another 10 days I think before they sorted everything out. I guess they found the missing tape of me confessing everything and said it would be okay and everything was fine.

But that experience was all ordained by God to get that alone time. And it was, it was, uh, that's really where, At least that transformation took place that helped me to, to [00:35:00] see how victory over sin through God's word can, can happen in my life. Amen. 

Jack: Dude, that's awesome. I love the way that God answered your prayer.

He put you in the one place where you couldn't have any options. I love 

Wes: the way he answered it. 

Jack: Ultimate surrender. 

Wes: I love how he answered it, but, uh, now, but at the time I didn't love how he answered it. I was like, man, I was envisioning more of like a cabin on a lake, you know, where it's like off the grid or something like that, but whatever.

Jack: Yeah. Well, I mean, like if you would have been put with the normal prison population, that would have been all bad. Right. Like they, they literally, the situation was completely orchestrated by our sovereign God to get you. Right. In complete isolation. Yeah. You shouldn't have been in isolation, you should have been with the prison population.

That's right. Right. And that, that's because, 

Wes: because I was a fugitive. They, you have to be in maximum security, solitary confinement. And so I was in for 23 hours a day out for one hour a day where I could walk outside for a minute, take my shower, make a fi [00:36:00] phone call, and then had to go right back in.

So it was definitely, the majority of my day was just me and the Bible in prayer. 

Jack: Amen. So, amen. So yeah, I mean, it goes back to something I said earlier, the, you know, the, the word of God does not return void. You invested, you know, good 10 days plus 20 days in, in the word of God and you came back better equipped.

Yeah. Now. I have to ask though, did you fall in love with Jesus more powerfully then? Or was it because the truth of the matter is God's word is helpful. Practically, even if you don't love God, if you follow the word of God, your life's going to go better because there's just general principles that God, you know, puts in his word to help people.

Life just goes more smoothly. Right. Right. But were you falling in love with the, with the word, you know, the person of the word? 

Wes: So I love that question because the answer is no. The answer is I was falling in love with the idea that I could overcome sin now and be a good person. And [00:37:00] while I had glimpse, I can't say that I didn't have glimpses of goodness, the goodness of God and I didn't worship him and I didn't praise him, but ultimately still, I sat on the throne of my own heart in that moment, in that jail cell.

I wanted to be out of there, and I wanted victory over sin for my own sake. Not because of God and his holiness, but because of my own sake and my own guilt and I wanted my life to be good, right? The more you struggle with sin, the more money you lose and the more you hurt people and the more and the more it hurts your reputation.

And so I, it was all still, and this wasn't revealed to me in my mind until again, a couple of years ago, even looking back, I've told that story of my testimony so many times. Before, and that was the climax of the testimony. Right? Well, obviously you came out of, out of jail, a different person. And now, and ever since then, you've just been on fire for the Lord and in love with him.

But the truth is that I wasn't still, I still was my own God. I knew I couldn't get [00:38:00] myself out of that situation. I knew I couldn't overcome sin. So I'll use God for that part of my life. But I'm still going to be my God and the rest of it, as long as you keep me from sin, as long as, you know, heaven's still there.

And as long as, you know, life can be a lot better, I'll still live for myself. And again, it took me far, far, far too long to realize. That the basics of following Jesus is denying yourself and taking up a cross and following him. And it took me so long to figure that out. 

Rob: Wow. This is like the crescendo of the story.

Wes: Well, I yeah, a couple, a couple of years ago, God brought me in his sovereignty to a rock bottom place where I was still struggling with pornography, still struggling with lust, hidden sins. That no one saw. Yeah, I wasn't doing drugs. Yes, I wasn't robbing people anymore, but it doesn't mean that I still didn't love sin that my heart still didn't long for those passions of the [00:39:00] flesh.

And so they just work themselves out in other areas. Selfishness will always work itself out and sin in some way. You'll fix one sin. And it'll find a new one. Selfishness will always result in sin every single time until you kill selfishness. You will send all the time. And so I'd fix these other problems.

I still had my lust. I still had my, my pornography. I still had all these other hidden things. The pride even pride was a big part of selfishness, obviously self righteousness even as well, even doing good things for God. There was sometimes, not always, sometimes a hidden layer. Of that self righteousness and so this, the selfishness was always working itself out in my life up until a couple of years ago where it kind of all came to a head and I was, I was on the verge of losing my marriage was on the verge of losing my family because of these [00:40:00] hidden sins and I found myself sleeping out here in our guest house separated from my wife and just at an absolute rock bottom.

And I was like, man, yeah. What is the problem and it wasn't until that complete brokenness occurred in me that God showed me the root of the problem and the root of the problem was me and I I was the common denominator throughout all the sin. It wasn't the environment. It wasn't the sin of choice. It wasn't the weather.

It wasn't any, there was no common denominator, more common than me. I was there through it all. And my selfish heart was the, was the culprit. And so I've never been more humbled to a place than I was that day in this, in this room. It's, this is where my study is now. And so, um, I remember feeling so broken to where, and I'm an, I'm not a guy that cries a lot in my life.

I didn't cry a lot. [00:41:00] I probably cried for about two straight weeks over just how broken I was and realizing just my, my selfishness and the fact that God showed me that and he brought me and he orchestrated all of that. I'm going to say he orchestrated this, this rubs a lot of people the wrong way. So I don't know what camp you're in, but.

God orchestrated at least ordained brought about all of these sin habits in my life to lead me to a broken and Completely rock bottom place and God can only God can do that, right? Yeah, only God can bring sin about in your life without sending himself and in order to bring about his glory I mean, that's the whole purpose of why God does anything that he does And so it was, it was the, the lowest I could possibly be.

And then from there, just rebuilding under a, a, a fully surrendered life, just completely. I don't care anymore. God helped me to love other [00:42:00] people more than I love myself. Help me to love you more than anything on this planet. And that's where this podcast that I have comes from. And that's where my life mission came from now of just making God's name great.

Like that's the, that's the name I care most about making great. I don't care if you know who I am. I don't care if you know the things I've done, the achievements I have. I want you to know how good God is because that brokenness that he gave me is the greatest kindness that God has ever done for me in my entire life.

I mean, he, he broke me down to nothing. And I had to be in order to see his goodness and his grace. And that's why I know his grace is amazing because I'm the least deserving of it than anybody. So sorry to get choked up there, man. 

Jack: All good. I love it. 

Wes: I don't know how anybody in church sings. Oh, praise the one who paid my debt and raised this life up from the dead.

I don't know how anybody sings that without tears just flowing from their eyeballs. Either [00:43:00] your debt wasn't as great as mine or you don't realize how great your debt was. I am so thankful that God showed me how terrible of a person I was because unless I would have ever realized that I would still be.

Still be sitting on the throne of my heart today. I 

Jack: love it, man. Hey, here's what I see. I see the Bible verse I believe it's in Luke him who is forgiven much loves much right? And so the truth is we've all been forgiven much. We just don't have a clue about how great our sin is You know, and I think God and his kindness God is so loving so good that he is willing to let us get To the, to absolute rock bottom so that we can find him again.

Right. It's a prodigal son eating from the pig's trough, right? Like, how did I get here? So good. I think this is where 

Rob: we would say, you know, when we're down to nothing, absolutely nothing, God is up to something. It's like that fork in the [00:44:00] road, you know, as, as you describe West with your, with your story, I know that those who are listening right now.

Can real, that resonates with them. Maybe that's right where they're at. Yeah. I mean, what would you say just, just to, to that person that's listening and, and, and, and can in many ways in a similar way, you know, feel what, what you shared because that's the life that they're in right now. Encourage that one person, if you will, 

Wes: man, I don't even know which one of the thousands of Bible verses to go to in that encouragement.

And one, one that I love is that. For the believer who is struggling still. And I was at a place where I felt like I wasn't sure if my salvation was even secure anymore because of my great sin to that person. I would encourage that your salvation has been secured since the beginning of time before you were even born.

God, he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion. Okay. It's not about the work you're [00:45:00] doing in your own life. It's about the work God is doing in your life and he is good and he is faithful and he will bring it through to completion if you lean into that work, even though that work is painful sometimes like sleeping on a get in on the guest bed or sitting in a jail cell, you know, sometimes the work isn't fun and sometimes the work isn't easy and sometimes the work hurts.

But the result is God's glory and that's what he cares about and that's what you'll come to care about and sometimes You know, I've had people say that man When you start a podcast man, everybody comes out of the woodwork as far as critics go, right? you know everybody's like you see the depravity of man and just the sad fallen state of our world where people just Hate, hate what you have to say and you hear people say like, well, if God only cares about his glory, how selfish is that?

Blah, blah, blah. You know, how is he a good God when all he cares about is glory. But here's the thing about God's glory. [00:46:00] God's glory brings us joy and hope. And a lot of people don't realize that the whole purpose of Christ's being absolutely obliterated by the wrath of God on the cross. In our stead and exchanging his righteousness for our sin brings God's glory That's the whole purpose of doing that and God is for the glory of his grace.

That was the purpose of Christ's atoning work on the cross now if that's why God did that who gets the benefit of that We do. Yeah. So his glory brings us joy. And if he wasn't zealous for his glory, then we would have nothing to hope. And so there's, there's that to, to think about as the believer of that, your work is secured on the cross.

You are sealed by the promise of the Holy Spirit and God is working in you and you just need to lean into that work and open up your canvas and say, all right, God, go to work here. Like I'm yours, man, I'm going to stop working and let you [00:47:00] take over, right? And so there's that portion of that. And I mean, for those who aren't yet believers and are struggling to find their way and they're struggling with, they're hearing this message and they're saying, man, that sounds good for you.

That story sounds awesome for your sake, but am I too far off? Does it would, that's cool. God did that for you. But would he do that for me? And my answer is, if you have that thought, that thought very in itself is a grace from God. You know me, people hear this right here and would just curse my name and just say, man, you guys are, you guys are living in an illusion world, living a fairy tale and their hearts are so cold and so hardened that they have zero desire to listen to any hope found in my story.

It's not hopeful. It's not a hopeful story at all for them. It's coincidence. And it's things that have happened that have made me a better person. But for the person who, who does feel something when they listen to this and they [00:48:00] hear like they hear of some hope, that's a grace. That's a grace from God because he doesn't even need to make you feel that at all.

He could leave you in your depravity. In your darkness, in your dead state. And so be thankful for that grace. And when you're thankful for that grace, he might just give you more. He might just give you the ability to believe. He might just give you the ability to put your faith in him. And those are obviously the most amazing of his all of all of his graces.

But man, there's, so much encouragement for those who are listening. And the biggest one is to, get in God's word and ask those questions to God because he will give you answers for sure. 

Jack: Amen. Wes, to add something to what you said, because I think I heard it from John Piper himself.

For those that are struggling with, can God save me, right? After all I've done, when we ask that question, we make too big of ourselves and too little of God. Right. Like the cross, the, the work of Jesus on the cross is [00:49:00] so great, is so powerful, so potent that it could cover every sin possible past, present and future.

Right. And so to think that it can't cover you is to make too big of yourself and too little of God. And that is overwhelming. And that's how amazing grace, how sweet the sound that would save a wretch like me, right? The guy who wrote that song was a slaver. He used to transatlantic slave trafficker, you know, responsible for some horrendous acts of human cruelty, some of the worst.

And he found grace. Yeah, he found salvation, right? 

Wes: Here's one thing to remember too, for those who may be listening, is that God's grace is necessary for everyone on the spectrum. Everyone who's ever come out of a womb needs God's grace in order to get eternal life. God's grace is [00:50:00] good enough and great enough to save Saul, who was murdering Christians.

for a living. And God's grace is good enough for him. And God's grace is great enough to save even a person like Mother Teresa, who's fed millions of Children, who's taking care of done some of the greatest works that we've ever seen a kind hearted soul. Even his grace is great enough to save a woman like that.

Like it's, it's got to save everyone without it. Everyone is destined for destruction, every single person. So no matter your story, great or small, no matter your sin, great or small. Every one of us need a savior, 

Rob: man, that's so cool. Jack. Like, I mean, every time we get the honor and privilege to meet people and God brings our way and we get to get them here and sharing their story, it's just, I'm just so fired up.

So encouraged. It feels like we've known each other for years and that that's the gift. That's eternity, uh, relationship with Jesus. And. [00:51:00] Eternity relationship with one another. So Wes, man, I'm so glad that you came on to our show today and, and shared your story, brother. I can't help, but think as you're talking, I mean, the whole time I've got it kind of like off to the side and it's a, it's Romans chapter seven.

And Paul is, I mean, it's so he, he just nails it. I mean, he's talking about, you know, I know that nothing good in me like lives in me is like nothing good. That is my sinful nature and I want to do what's right, but I can't I do what I want to do What's good, but I don't I you know, I don't want to do what I don't want to do what is wrong But I do it anyway, you know any any saying this is what's going on.

I I'm here. I'm high. I'm low I don't know what to even do and I love at the end here He doesn't leave us hanging because he shares a truth in West. That's what you've done today, man But there's another power within me that is at war with my mind. This power makes me a slave to the sin that's still within me.

Oh, what a miserable person that I am, who will free me from this life that is dominated by sin and death. And [00:52:00] then Paul says, here it is. It looks like here's the crescendo. Thank God. The. The answer is in Jesus Christ, our Lord and brother Matt, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing your story, man. The best is yet to come.

God is continuing to do this work in and through you and we're, we're the benefit of, of seeing what God has done in you. So I'm thankful that God connected us. Thank you. 

Wes: Yeah, absolutely, man. I'm so glad that you, you guys reached out, you know, God works in those ways, man, just connecting us through a random friend.

And so, I want to build off what you said there, Rob and, and Paul, he leads right into the next chapter, chapter eight which , I made it my goal to memorize a while back. And so he starts off with that chapter and he says, therefore. There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus because of what I just said, because I'm such a terrible person, because I do all these things I don't want to do.

And because all this, and the answer is found in Jesus Christ, our Lord, because of Jesus Christ being our Lord, there is therefore now no [00:53:00] condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. For the law of the spirit of life has set us free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death. And that is the beauty of the gospel right there.

That is that's available to every single ear that is listening to this today. That you can have that assurance that there is no condemnation for you. You can have that. Like you can have that in only one place though. And that's in our Lord Jesus Christ. You can't find it in good works. You can't find it in penance.

You can't find it in, in, in the Jewish faith, the Muslim faith, no matter. There's no other faith in the world where you can find that assurance. Everything else is based off what you do and right here, we're talking about what Christ has done. So I hope that they will take that as an opportunity for sure.

This is actually, it was a pricey mic. I don't want to drop this. I 

Jack: don't want to drop mine either. Wes, I really, really appreciate you. You saying yes to this opportunity. I've been super blessed by just, [00:54:00] I've heard your story, but just, To hear it again and just dive into different facets of it. Great conversation with you, brother.

I wish you the best. Mm-Hmm. with the seventh hour podcast. I hope God magnifies your ministry there. And, uh, thank you again for coming on the show. 

Wes: Yeah, God bless you guys, man. I'm gonna, can I pray for you guys real quick before we go? Ah, 

Rob: thank you. Absolutely. I'll receive that. Thank you. All right. 

Wes: Lord God, I just thank you for Rob and for Jack Lord, for their, they're answering your call to be lights in this world, Lord.

We know that there's just as much darkness on the internet as there is anywhere. So as this, as this podcast of theirs goes out across those waves across the internet, Lord, that one thing and one thing alone would be magnified and beautified and just Illuminated for every ear and eye that sees it and that would be you and your glory.

Lord God, may our lives be all about that one purpose. Lord God, that we would love you more than anything in this world and that we would love others as much as we love ourselves. Lord God. We know that [00:55:00] those are the two things most important to you. So would we, would we surrender our lives to that today?

Lord, I thank you for their hearts to serve their hearts for others, their hearts to magnify your name. Jesus, would you bless them, bless them and their families and their work? And their lives, Lord God, which you put your hand on them and use them in mighty ways for your kingdom. In Jesus name. Amen. 

Jack: Thank you for that.

Wes. Everybody else. Stay tuned every Tuesday for new episodes. God bless.